Sonic Is Startin To Piss Me Off.

[RockmoddeR]

AWKWARD?! Those were the best controllers ever. >:U

Surprising how little Captain falcon is used, considering his speed/power combo.

[Cirevam]

The only character that is underpowered is jiggly puff (unless you're really good at hitting with down + b).

Down+B is not the way to go. The Wall Of Pain is a better technique, but otherwise you're right.

AWKWARD?! Those were the best controllers ever. >:U

Surprising how little Captain falcon is used, considering his speed/power combo.

MY HANDS STILL HAVE BLISTERS FROM MARIO PARTY 1. That game is the reason why so many N64 controllers are loose now. I still like them.

The reason why people don't use Captain Falcon much in Brawl is because his priority is the lowest in the game. Almost any attack from any other character will hit him out of his own attacks. It's pathetic because CF is a good character but is easily stopped.

[Amauros]

1, I didn't know mario party existed on N64

2, N64 controllers are awkward because of the different sized handles

3, Idk if my controllers are stiff from lack of use or from age or if they've always been that way, but they're realllllly stiff compared to my gcube controllers so that makes playing old school a little less fun.

[Aki Dazrold]

Maybe Nintendoh will make N64-style controllers for the Wii. >:O

Then you can Brawl liek a HAWDCOAH GAMAHH

Speaking of which I think I'll touch up on my Brawlinz nao

[Amauros]

There's also too wide a range between the top used and least used characters in that graph.

I am desperately trying to figure out how this reinforces anything you've said.

This reinforces the fact that a good character is defined by the player behind it, not by the bias people have for or against certain characters (like some people don't like DDD just because it's DDD).

Well yeah the grab also works well, but that only works if Marth is expecting you to to dash+a/b. It's much easier for Marth to just time attacks and dodge yours.

I'm also trying to figure out what the heck this even means.

I thought your level of English was higher than Doc's; I must be mistaken.

Something else you can do is use Pikachu to throw someone upwards and then immediately use down+b to send them the rest of the way into the sky.

I have only seen this work against novice players. Even then they don't let it happen much after getting whacked with it the first time.

Edit: Or, upon reflection, if their percentage is too high to move or air dodge. But this isn't as efficient as just smacking them with a smash attack; unless, of course, they are a shield/counter spammer.

And even then the grab alone might be enough to kill them.

This combo also depends on what stage you're playing. Remember that this attack has an effective range. If the grab sends them too high, the thunderbolt will miss.

Best way to make sure people are playing by skill and skill alone, play Final Destination with no items on Timed mode. I see this down+b strategy all the time with pikachu. I don't mean grab, throw up, then down + b, only thing that matters is someone is high in the air and can't air dodge.

[Aki Dazrold]

I'll overlook that intentional misspelling.

This reinforces the fact that a good character is defined by the player behind it, not by the bias people have for or against certain characters (like some people don't like DDD just because it's DDD).

I agree with this statement completely. I just fail to see how saying the gap is too large means anything. The graph just shows what characters people use most frequently, not which ones perform the best.

I thought your level of English was higher than Doc's; I must be mistaken.

Excuse me?

Here's what you were trying to say:

Grabbing a counter-happy marth only works when he expects a running attack. Even then he can just dodge and hit you.

Wrong. Grabbing a counter-wad in any manner will work. Doing a running grab will actually be easier to predict. In which case, he would probably spike you with a forward smash or dodge around (like you said)

Something else you can do is use Pikachu to throw someone upwards and then immediately use down+b to send them the rest of the way into the sky.

I have only seen this work against novice players. Even then they don't let it happen much after getting whacked with it the first time.

Edit: Or, upon reflection, if their percentage is too high to move or air dodge. But this isn't as efficient as just smacking them with a smash attack; unless, of course, they are a shield/counter/dodge spammer.

Best way to make sure people are playing by skill and skill alone, play Final Destination with no items on Timed mode. I see this down+b strategy all the time with pikachu. I don't mean grab, throw up, then down + b, only thing that matters is someone is high in the air and can't air dodge.

You are restating what I just said.

And that is how I play anyway.

[Cirevam]

Best way to make sure people are playing by skill and skill alone, play Final Destination with no items on Timed mode.

GET OUT. Final Destination isn't as balanced as you think it is. Battlefield with its three staggered platforms allows for more skill to be shown since you're increasing both the vertical area and giving the ground-based characters the ability to use cover from the pure aerial fighters. Pikachu can't Uthrow into a DownB very easily since the thrown player could use one of the platforms to roll or dodge the lightning, and then drop through the platform to follow with a Dair or something else while Pikachu is finishing his DownB animation. Plus, Final Destination is overused and boring. I'm sick of seeing it.

Wrong. Grabbing a counter-wad in any manner will work. Doing a running grab will actually be easier to predict. In which case, he would probably spike you with a forward smash or dodge around (like you said)

Actually, Marth's SideB is his fastest attack and, if I remember correctly, it's the fastest attack in the game since it comes out in four frames. It's a combo attack, so if you do get hit by it then you'll need to try to DI out of it. I can't remember HOW you would DI out of it or if it's even possible, but you should PREPARE YOURSELF for that.

[Zephyria]

My head hurts from all these SSBB nerdiness discussions.

What's "DI"?

[Aki Dazrold]

Actually, Marth's SideB is his fastest attack and, if I remember correctly, it's the fastest attack in the game since it comes out in four frames. It's a combo attack, so if you do get hit by it then you'll need to try to DI out of it. I can't remember HOW you would DI out of it or if it's even possible, but you should PREPARE YOURSELF for that.

I mentioned his forward smash not because of it's speed, but because of it's power and range. Time it correctly against someone trying to running grab him and you can screw them pretty bad.

Although side+b I guess WOULD be a better choice when you dodge around it, for the reasons you stated.

[Amauros]

I'll overlook that intentional misspelling.

This reinforces the fact that a good character is defined by the player behind it, not by the bias people have for or against certain characters (like some people don't like DDD just because it's DDD).

I agree with this statement completely. I just fail to see how saying the gap is too large means anything. The graph just shows what characters people use most frequently, not which ones perform the best.

I'm know exactly what that graph means and I'm still saying the gap is too wide between the highest and lowest.

I thought your level of English was higher than Doc's; I must be mistaken.

Excuse me?

Here's what you were trying to say:

Grabbing a counter-happy marth only works when he expects a running attack. Even then he can just dodge and hit you.

Wrong. Grabbing a counter-wad in any manner will work. Doing a running grab will actually be easier to predict. In which case, he would probably spike you with a forward smash or dodge around (like you said)

No here's what I said.

Well yeah the grab also works well, but that only works if Marth is expecting you to to dash+a/b. It's much easier for Marth to just time attacks and dodge yours.

I said that it is easier for Marth to attack you and dodge your attacks than to try and counter every move you make. I'm also saying that counter-happy Marth's are poorly played Marth's.

---

@Cire, personally I hate final destination as well. I prefer to just play every game with all random settings; yes that means that someone might get a character they hate/can't use and someone else gets a character they love and then on top of that the level might be a terrible place for the guy with the short end of the stick...... but if the guy with the short end can still beat the guy with the advantage, that's saying something. ;)

[Aki Dazrold]

I thought your level of English was higher than Doc's; I must be mistaken.

Excuse me?

Here's what you were trying to say:

Grabbing a counter-happy marth only works when he expects a running attack. Even then he can just dodge and hit you.

Wrong. Grabbing a counter-wad in any manner will work. Doing a running grab will actually be easier to predict. In which case, he would probably spike you with a forward smash or dodge around (like you said)

No here's what I said.

Well yeah the grab also works well, but that only works if Marth is expecting you to to dash+a/b. It's much easier for Marth to just time attacks and dodge yours.

I said that it is easier for Marth to attack you and dodge your attacks than to try and counter every move you make. I'm also saying that counter-happy Marth's are poorly played Marth's.

Wow. Now I see the bait-switch you pulled here. The comments made before this was me saying that Marth's counter wasn't broken because he is left wide open to grabs. And then you turn around and say that his counter really shouldn't be used at all? Weren't you the one complaining about it in the first place?

The conversation prior to this was about how you considered Marth's down-b to be cheap, and me saying why it wasn't and giving advice on how to combat it. Then you go and essentially say the attack is useless and shouldn't be used anyway, and in doing so you have the nerve to insult my English.

What?

I mean, just... What?

Am I the only one who sees what's wrong with this picture?

Oh, and this last part amused me:

I'm also saying that counter-happy Marths are poorly played Marths

This, while true, is a point you never addressed anywhere prior to this comment.

I'm really trying not to be mean about this but it ticks me off when someone changes what they're saying like that, especially when their new point says something nearly opposite what they were saying before.

[Addictgamer]

On a side note, after a year of struggling, I now have internet access for my WII.

Yay!

Now it's time to play some brawl.

[Amauros]

I thought your level of English was higher than Doc's; I must be mistaken.

Excuse me?

Here's what you were trying to say:

Grabbing a counter-happy marth only works when he expects a running attack. Even then he can just dodge and hit you.

Wrong. Grabbing a counter-wad in any manner will work. Doing a running grab will actually be easier to predict. In which case, he would probably spike you with a forward smash or dodge around (like you said)

No here's what I said.

Well yeah the grab also works well, but that only works if Marth is expecting you to to dash+a/b. It's much easier for Marth to just time attacks and dodge yours.

I said that it is easier for Marth to attack you and dodge your attacks than to try and counter every move you make. I'm also saying that counter-happy Marth's are poorly played Marth's.

Wow. Now I see the bait-switch you pulled here. The comments made before this was me saying that Marth's counter wasn't broken because he is left wide open to grabs. And then you turn around and say that his counter really shouldn't be used at all? Weren't you the one complaining about it in the first place?

The conversation prior to this was about how you considered Marth's down-b to be cheap, and me saying why it wasn't and giving advice on how to combat it. Then you go and essentially say the attack is useless and shouldn't be used anyway, and in doing so you have the nerve to insult my English.

What?

I mean, just... What?

Am I the only one who sees what's wrong with this picture?

Oh, and this last part amused me:

I'm also saying that counter-happy Marths are poorly played Marths

This, while true, is a point you never addressed anywhere prior to this comment.

I'm really trying not to be mean about this but it ticks me off when someone changes what they're saying like that, especially when their new point says something nearly opposite what they were saying before.

First, I was just teasing you for very joke you called win on earlier. Second, Marth's melee reflect is cheap because of how fast it is and how long it lasts. It's true that a grab works on his reflect, but that only works if he's trigger happy. As previously addressed, his side+b is quick and so are most of his other moves. So the better strategy (for Marth) is to attack and dodge opponents, BUT his reflect is extremely quick and can be thrown in when least expected and work when if Lucario/Ike tried in the same instance would fail. It's also great when used in the air as it goes all the way around him, I've only seen a few characters with a few moves overrule a successful counter (usually from below with an attack of greater reach, such as Zero Suit Samus' whip). Dancing with Marth isn't always a good technique either (both characters side stepping) as Marth's down+a is both quick and powerful and will hit you when you're going into or out of a roll.

---

Just saying that a good player using Marth is one of the hardest to beat (as he is cheap and when cheap meets skill there's just this divine and dynamic increase of oh Jesus help me); both points are valid and doesn't overrule the other point that any good player is still hard to beat on any other character.

[Aki Dazrold]

Well at least now we have that cleared up. There's still one point I'd like to argue, though.

Just saying that a good player using Marth is one of the hardest to beat (as he is cheap, and when cheap meets skill there's just this divine and dynamic increase of oh Jesus help me)

He. Isn't. Cheap.

Maybe he was in Melee, but not in Brawl. People don't use him as much as you'd think. The way you describe him makes him seem like he's God or something when in reality he isn't. It just sounds to me that you have the same distaste for him that I do for King DeDeDe.

[Amauros]

The way you describe him makes him seem like he's God or something when in reality he isn't. It just sounds to me that you have the same distaste for him that I do for King DeDeDe.

No actually I love Marth and I love King DeDeDe. The only characters I really don't like (to play as) are Mr. Game & Watch and Olimar. They're both fun to use, but Olimar is just so unorthodox and Mr. G&W has so few animated frames that he's hard to follow sometimes. The one and only character I don't like playing against is Sonic because he's just sooooooooooo fast that it's annoying.

[Aki Dazrold]

I used to love palying Marth too. In fact, I would main him along with Falco and Lucas.

But recently I discovered that none of these characters really do what I want them to do. I now don't use any of them.

Marth also had a bad habit of not obeying the input I was giving him. >:O

[Amauros]

Marth also had a bad habit of not obeying the input I was giving him. >:O

Sounds like a personal problem to me. :P

But really though, I tend to press the wii-stick up and to the left/right and no matter what character I use, they tend to prefer using up+b/a instead of side+b/a. So I still have to work on controlling that. DX

[aLPHA]

So this is now a random topic about random things...yay

Wrong, this topic is about Sonic and SSBB. ~ addictgamer

[TheEPICtrainrider]

I honestly liked the old discussion better.

I remember once in the 7th grade we were talking about video games. Eventually the discussion drifted towards SSBB or whatever. They talked about "Bob" or something.

I still have no %^&#ing idea what they were talking about.

[aLPHA]

I think should be locked...

[Amauros]

Locked? Why? Everything is on topic.

[Aki Dazrold]

I honestly liked the old discussion better.

I remember once in the 7th grade we were talking about video games. Eventually the discussion drifted towards SSBB or whatever. They talked about "Bob" or something.

I still have no %^&#ing idea what they were talking about.

ROB.

They were probably talking about ROB.

He's a robot that looks really cute but he has some really messed-up and painful moves. Namely his throws.

[Tracker]

Ummmm..... I led with Fox, not Ike. Get it right.

And the characters pro gamers use are ordered pretty much here:

Also, I really wish I wasn't in Chemistry right now, cause I keep trying to spell led L-E-A-D.

What about Plumbum, Cupprum, Ferrum, or Wolfram?

[Fluffy Cupcake]

Huh, since when was this topic about Brawl? Guess I must of not been checking on this site when the topic converted.

[RockmoddeR]

It's a bit late...