UltraHau Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Since it looks like I can link to external sites here, I wrote up a quick list of reasons why I think it would be better to replace LR1's game engine instead of trying to modify it: http://dangeronthera...ers-1-part.html. (Yes, by "those people", I'm talking about RRU - hope I didn't come off as abrasive.) A quick summary of those reasons: Replacing the game engine ensures you can add new content (piece sets, tracks, circuits, etc...) without having to replace existing content. Replacing the game engine lets you add new code features - better AI, new powerups, or online play, anyone? It would be feasible to make a complete replacement (and thus, a completely separate game) for LR1's data files, thus removing the need to have people download and install LR1 to use the game engine. I'm capable (or at least, I like to think I'm capable) of doing most of the heavy coding myself, having at least one large on-going coding project under my belt, but I still would need all the help I can get. Thoughts, suggestions and criticism (constructive or not) would be appreciated! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Is this illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraHau Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Is this illegal? I doubt it - this sort of thing been done before with several other games, most notably Morrowind. DOOM and Quake might count as well, but the developers released the original source code in those cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lol username Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Isn't this something like attempting to put a muscle car motor into an old Model T? If you're gonna try to replace the most important part of the game, why not just make an all-out fan recreation and improve the texture quality and model detail while you're at it? Start from scratch entirely? I don't see a point in trying to make a new engine to use assets over ten years old that were originally designed with a Nintendo 64 in mind. It just doesn't make sense, unless there's some special reason here I'm missing entirely. LUModder, STUDZ and Lair 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JrMasterModelBuilder Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 What language and technologies would this be written in/using? Isn't this something like attempting to put a muscle car motor into an old Model T? If you're gonna try to replace the most important part of the game, why not just make an all-out fan recreation and improve the texture quality and model detail while you're at it? Start from scratch entirely? I don't see a point in trying to make a new engine to use assets over ten years old that were originally designed with a Nintendo 64 in mind. It just doesn't make sense, unless there's some special reason here I'm missing entirely. I'm with jamester. Why bother even using their strange data formats? I'm sure there are much better alternatives that have been invented in the last 10 years. BTW, the DRM is easy enough to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirevam Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Also don't forget that we (and by we I mean origamiguy since he knows all things) don't fully understand many of the file formats, especially the geometry formats. There's also some fairly limited things in LR1, ranging from no proper skyboxes to AI paths independent of the track itself, meaning opponents can go through the track. Jamesster is right on all accounts; make a fan recreation, like the Open Rock Raider projects we have already. Then you can use whatever formats you want and make it super-easy and heavy metal to mod. Chyes. Maybe even TCP/IP multiplayer support. I looked at your blog and I saw this: A mod of the game would not be able to add new content without removing existing content; I doubt, for instance, you could add new circuits, bricks, chassis, or piece sets (you unlocked the pieces of each bosses car when you beat them) without removing existing content. If we're lucky, this might not be the case. It certainly isn't for LRR except in a few cases that the devs pointed out. But if it turns out that some things can be added, and from the files we've seen to far this might, just might be a possibility for maybe a few insignificant things that no one would be interested in changing anyways, then a remake would be preferable. STUDZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumboking Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Isn't this something like attempting to put a muscle car motor into an old Model T? If you're gonna try to replace the most important part of the game, why not just make an all-out fan recreation and improve the texture quality and model detail while you're at it? Start from scratch entirely? I don't see a point in trying to make a new engine to use assets over ten years old that were originally designed with a Nintendo 64 in mind. It just doesn't make sense, unless there's some special reason here I'm missing entirely. If the original assets were converted to common formats, then you can still have the original looks but with a modern OS compatible engine. You could implement a toggle for higher quality models and textures. I guess it's like Half Life:Source, where it's the same textures and models from the GoldSrc version but in the Source engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modded Lego Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Who cares if it's legal, this would mean that we could mod the whole game to our liking! COOL! Hope you can do it UltraHau! :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadie Meowsalot Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Who cares if it's legal TLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraHau Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Who cares if it's legal, this would mean that we could mod the whole game to our liking! COOL! Hope you can do it UltraHau! Isn't this something like attempting to put a muscle car motor into an old Model T? If you're gonna try to replace the most important part of the game, why not just make an all-out fan recreation and improve the texture quality and model detail while you're at it? Start from scratch entirely? I don't see a point in trying to make a new engine to use assets over ten years old that were originally designed with a Nintendo 64 in mind. It just doesn't make sense, unless there's some special reason here I'm missing entirely. If the original assets were converted to common formats, then you can still have the original looks but with a modern OS compatible engine. You could implement a toggle for higher quality models and textures. I guess it's like Half Life:Source, where it's the same textures and models from the GoldSrc version but in the Source engine. Right. All I want is the ability to use the original data files - if a converter has to be used, that's fine by me, but I don't see why the original formats could be used as well. Also don't forget that we (and by we I mean origamiguy since he knows all things) don't fully understand many of the file formats, especially the geometry formats. There's also some fairly limited things in LR1, ranging from no proper skyboxes to AI paths independent of the track itself, meaning opponents can go through the track. Jamesster is right on all accounts; make a fan recreation, like the Open Rock Raider projects we have already. Then you can use whatever formats you want and make it super-easy and heavy metal to mod. Chyes. Maybe even TCP/IP multiplayer support. I looked at your blog and I saw this: A mod of the game would not be able to add new content without removing existing content; I doubt, for instance, you could add new circuits, bricks, chassis, or piece sets (you unlocked the pieces of each bosses car when you beat them) without removing existing content. If we're lucky, this might not be the case. It certainly isn't for LRR except in a few cases that the devs pointed out. But if it turns out that some things can be added, and from the files we've seen to far this might, just might be a possibility for maybe a few insignificant things that no one would be interested in changing anyways, then a remake would be preferable. I'm aware the file formats aren't fully yet understood - I'm going to attempt to do my part in fully documenting them. As for AI pathfinding, those files don't have to be used anymore; there are other, better methods for pathfinding now, obviously. I'm not sure what to do about skyboxes, but 1) I think they could easily be done without in any case 2) making the game engine import different model formats that do support skyboxes wouldn't be difficult. What language and technologies would this be written in/using? Isn't this something like attempting to put a muscle car motor into an old Model T? If you're gonna try to replace the most important part of the game, why not just make an all-out fan recreation and improve the texture quality and model detail while you're at it? Start from scratch entirely? I don't see a point in trying to make a new engine to use assets over ten years old that were originally designed with a Nintendo 64 in mind. It just doesn't make sense, unless there's some special reason here I'm missing entirely. I'm with jamester. Why bother even using their strange data formats? I'm sure there are much better alternatives that have been invented in the last 10 years. BTW, the DRM is easy enough to remove. What language/technologies? I'm leaning towards Python + Panda3D at the moment, since 1) they're free 2) I have years of experience with both already. Concerning data formats: You're right - there are much better alternatives nowadays. I just want the original data files to be able to be used, whether the game engine supports them natively or through a converter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almogzxp Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Replace the lego racers engine - and then it wont be lego racers anymore. WHICH IS NOT A SMART IDEA. Somewhen Someone will crack the engine so we can mod it. just wait for that time. p.s sorry for bad english ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leumeister Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Maybe you should try and put renderware in there? Just a suggestion. Replace the lego racers engine - and then it wont be lego racers anymore. WHICH IS NOT A SMART IDEA. Somewhen Someone will crack the engine so we can mod it. just wait for that time. p.s sorry for bad english ... O.T. What bad english? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraHau Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Replace the lego racers engine - and then it wont be lego racers anymore. WHICH IS NOT A SMART IDEA. Somewhen Someone will crack the engine so we can mod it. just wait for that time. p.s sorry for bad english ... If you're talking about someone modifying the LR1 engine itself, that's outright illegal as far as I know. Modding LR1 via things like texture replacement and track modification, on the other hand, could not achieve half the features a custom engine could - better graphical effects, online play, better AI, etc. It would still look like LR1, even if a different game engine was running under the hood. Maybe you should try and put renderware in there? Just a suggestion. Renderware? What's that? EDIT: Looked it up; 1) It's no-longer available 2) It costs money, so we couldn't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJobless Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Look at the LegoRR projects which are doing the same thing. Not a lot of success in that department, even though we know mostly everything about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraHau Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 Look at the LegoRR projects which are doing the same thing. Not a lot of success in that department, even though we know mostly everything about the game. Apologies in advance since this will be blunt, but I looked at the existing open-source remakes of RR, and they all seem to suffer from poor technology decisions - the largest probably being use of low-level libraries (OpenGL, LWJGL, or pyglet) when it would be better to use a game engine - say, jMonkeyEngine for Java, OGRE + plugins for C++, and Panda3D for Python or C++. I also notice that each remake seems to lack a coherent design - the code appears to be thrown together without any forethought. ORR-Delta is the exception to my previous claim, but the design it implements seems to be somewhat rigid and inextensible. What makes me think I'll be able to do better? I've worked on - and am still working on - much larger projects in the past (OpenBlox is around 18k lines of Python, around 9k are code), so I'm familiar with how to design and implement large applications like game engines. Again, apologies for this blunt and prideful-sounding post - I really wish I could have come up with a nicer way to say all of this, but I couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJobless Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Apologies in advance since this will be blunt, but I looked at the existing open-source remakes of RR, and they all seem to suffer from poor technology decisions - the largest probably being use of low-level libraries (OpenGL, LWJGL, or pyglet) when it would be better to use a game engine - say, jMonkeyEngine for Java, OGRE + plugins for C++, and Panda3D for Python or C++. I also notice that each remake seems to lack a coherent design - the code appears to be thrown together without any forethought. ORR-Delta is the exception to my previous claim, but the design it implements seems to be somewhat rigid and inextensible. What makes me think I'll be able to do better? I've worked on - and am still working on - much larger projects in the past (OpenBlox is around 18k lines of Python, around 9k are code), so I'm familiar with how to design and implement large applications like game engines. Again, apologies for this blunt and prideful-sounding post - I really wish I could have come up with a nicer way to say all of this, but I couldn't. No, no, that wasn't blunt and it was alright. A good argument, but I was trying to point out how nobody has finished because they all lost interest. Seeing as you're still working on your project, however, I think you'll have more success. STUDZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraHau Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Status update since I've been quiet for quite some time: Summer's over, so I won't get much time to work on this project, but I still intend to work on it nonetheless - I haven't forgotten about it by any means. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pranav Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Nice to see that you are still working on it. Were you able to reach anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stakhanov Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Status update since I've been quiet for quite some time: Summer's over, so I won't get much time to work on this project, but I still intend to work on it nonetheless - I haven't forgotten about it by any means. That's good to see there are some motivated people who wants to push lego racer modding to the big level, this project is very ambitious and I wish you'll be able to push it to the end, I sadly don't have that much of programming skills but for sure if I had some I'd have worked on such a project, so yeah basiclly good luck and I wish you the best with this :af: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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