Computer Hardware Assistance (General)

[Raiderforce]

Now the question is if you want to have a intel or amd cpu 

 

I would have gone for a intel cpu, because it´s more colder and less noise than a amd cpu.

 

If you want to play old Lego game, you should not buy anything from Amd 

[Arthuriel]

Not sure, if it is still the case (since I haven't really followed the developments of the AMD CPUs in recent years), but the Intel ones generally have/had a higher maximum temperature at which they could run without taking damage. That means, that you can run the fans of the CPU cooler at a lower speed (=less noise).

 

About the AMD issue thing: Did/Does this only affect the more recent AMD graphics cards, because personally I managed to run games like Rock Raiders or LOCO (not sure, if Creator ever worked) on my older hardware configuration (AMD CPU & AMD GPU under Win 7).

[aidenpons]

With regards to budget: It's hard to specify a fixed value because we don't have one - I think you said it well Arth, we're prepared to pay more for longevity.

 

We don't really care about quiet-ness but we do prefer bigger upright cases where possible - they're simply easier to change things around. But that's where we have no clue - how much more expensive is a more silent PC, and if we go for the upgrade option, what determines the sound level?

 

 

We're current eyeing up this with an extra 8GB RAM. If we were to get this, we'd also need a new PSU (which by a strange twist of fate we have around) - anything else? (I know that site says the bundle is discontinued but on other sites in NZ it isn't, I just couldn't get them up)

 

 

Is there much of a difference between AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA?

 

 

Also, I'm perfectly happy for you to make notes. I don't expect you to come in here and say "Get this and this and that because of this and that and blahblahblah" because, frankly, I wouldn't believe you that's what I should immediately get. I'd take that in mind, but we'd still have a look around. Those notes are very helpful.

[mumboking]

16GB of RAM may be overkill for what you want. 8GB is usually enough.

 

I could just say:

i5-4690K (For the overclocking possibilities)

8GB DDR3 RAM

A Z97 chipset motherboard (For the overclocking possibilities)

NVidia GTX 970 (With a non-reference cooler)

 

But that may also be more than you need/could afford.

 

What will you be doing on the computer?

Gaming? Video editing? Web browsing? All of those?

What games are you likely to play?

[aidenpons]

1 hour ago, mumboking said:

16GB of RAM may be overkill for what you want. 8GB is usually enough.

 

I could just say:

i5-4690K (For the overclocking possibilities)

8GB DDR3 RAM

A Z97 chipset motherboard (For the overclocking possibilities)

NVidia GTX 970 (With a non-reference cooler)

 

But that may also be more than you need/could afford.

 

What will you be doing on the computer?

Gaming? Video editing? Web browsing? All of those?

What games are you likely to play?

 

We're basically future-proofing the computer. As it stands it's really rather bad, and continually gets comparatively worse. So we decided to upgrade it. That's why we're going for 16GB RAM - it's overkill now, but it won't be in 10 years (we can hope that this computer will last that long, it has already). We plan to upgrade this machine and then not need to worry about it for a long time. It's perfectly possible that we get one 8 GB stick this year and then only next year the other 8GB, but the end result is 16GB.

 

Three questions:

1) Why do we need a preferably new PSU, and what would happen if we didn't get one?

2) According to Dad motherboards always come with a pathetic graphics card of sorts. Is this true / can somebody explain?

3) Can I mix-and-match parts from different companies? E.g. Intel makes the processor, AMD the graphics card, somebody else the motherboard?

[mumboking]

43 minutes ago, aidenpons said:

Three questions:

1) Why do we need a preferably new PSU, and what would happen if we didn't get one?

2) According to Dad motherboards always come with a pathetic graphics card of sorts. Is this true / can somebody explain?

3) Can I mix-and-match parts from different companies? E.g. Intel makes the processor, AMD the graphics card, somebody else the motherboard?

1. It's possible you can just use your old one again, but it might not have enough power output. As they get older, they can become weaker.
2. He's slightly correct. Some older motherboards did include the built-in graphics, although now it's the processor that includes the built-in graphics. The motherboard just has the connectors. For some uses they're good enough, but for gaming, you'd want a dedicated graphics card.
3. Absolutely! It's been that was since almost forever!

Again:

What will you be doing on the computer?

Gaming? Video editing? Web browsing? All of those?

What games are you likely to play?

[le717]

19 hours ago, aidenpons said:

Our family has decided that my computer needs an upgrade (finally! :D)

 

This makes me happy. I can sleep well tonight.

[aidenpons]

3 hours ago, mumboking said:

1. It's possible you can just use your old one again, but it might not have enough power output. As they get older, they can become weaker.
2. He's slightly correct. Some older motherboards did include the built-in graphics, although now it's the processor that includes the built-in graphics. The motherboard just has the connectors. For some uses they're good enough, but for gaming, you'd want a dedicated graphics card.
3. Absolutely! It's been that was since almost forever!

Again:

What will you be doing on the computer?

Gaming? Video editing? Web browsing? All of those?

What games are you likely to play?

 

Is there any disadvantage to having a older and thus weaker power supply? Will it cause the computer to randomly shut down or will it just be slower? How much slower, considering the PSU is about 10 years old?

 

As for what I'm doing - normal stuff. (Awfully helpful, I know.) Web browsing, gaming (but hardly high-end). Nothing particularly demanding at the moment, but as I said I'd like to future-proof it so that in 5 years time or so I can run new-ish games on Lowest graphics settings. By no means do I desire the best of the best, but I simply want something that will put me in good stead to be able to do most things in a couple of years' time. I've said ten years - this has currently lasted it 10 years, but I wouldn't attempt to run a new game (well, I did, it just blatantly refused to work ). I therefore understand that what will fit those settings is rather high-end at the moment.

 

Have I explained myself? (Wander into the chat if you want to talk more)

 

 

Apparently the onboard graphics card that comes with the bundle is this:

Processor Graphics
Intel HD Graphics 530
Graphics Base Frequency
350 MHz
Graphics Max Dynamic Frequency
950 MHz
Graphics Video Max Memory
1.7 GB

DirectX Support
12

 

I'm utterly clueless when it comes to anything except the DX version, so can somebody sift through this?

 

 

 

Also, we've decided on that bundle:  http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=KITPB21200&name=Intel-SKYLAKE-CORE-I5-VALUE-Upgrade-Kit-Intel-INTE

I'm now wondering about the graphics card.

I'm looking at either a GeForce GTX 950 or maybe a 960. In NZ prices the 970 shoots up - roughly $350 for a 950 or 960 then 550 for a 970.

I've also found out that we'll need a new PSU, but in a strange twist of fate I have one lying around.

[Arthuriel]

This post is for the most part only about the PSU. I hope, that this is okay:

 

I wrote in the longer post above, why it is a rather bad idea to use an old PSU, but here is the extended version:

a) less reliability/risk of hardware damage due to old capacitors etc. (which in return may lead to a shut down of the computer or in worse cases: the PSU can take the rest of the hardware with it into the realm of broken hardware since it is so old, that the PSU's safe mechanisms don't work anymore)

b) not made with modern power saving mechanisms in mind (modern hardware can switch way faster between maximum power and idle than older hardware and the question is, if an old PSU can keep up with that)

c) different power and voltage demands (earlier hardware required more power via the 5 V and 3,3 V lines than the 12 V one. Today a system mainly needs power via the 12 V line of a PSU).

In short: you have to keep in mind, that back at the point in time, when your old PSU was designed, the people probably (or rather definitely) didn't knew, how the systems of 2016 would look like, which means, that the PSU might have been good for the systems around that point (2006?), but not for modern hardware.

It is understandable, that you don't want to buy unnecessary stuff (I had similar thoughts when I replaced a 7 year old PSU, that still worked with my more modern hardware), but by not buying a new PSU you are saving money at the wrong end and it is the basis of your computer. The other problem is, that it is not that easy to test, if the PSU is still safe to use.

 

About the three questions: I would have answered them in the same or similar way like mumboking. No need for redundancy there^^.

 

A question from me: Can you make a picture of the sticker with the PSU's specifications (I mean the new one, that you have mentioned) and post it here, please? A link to a website, where you can see the specifications would also be okay. I want to make sure, that it is a okay/good one.

 

About mumbo's question: He probably just wants to know, if you do something really often, aiden. If you would do rendering all day, we might recommend a quad core with hyperthreading or even a hexa core. If would only do office stuff, we might only recommend a dual core. I assume, that he meant that sort of thing (just post, if I am wrong, mumbo^^).

 

A GTX 950 or GTX 960 sounds okay for a longer term use (under the assumption, that you don't need the highest quality settings in games), if you would ask me.

 

About the onboard graphics card: You can play games with it, but a new separate graphics card will be faster (in theory you could try to only use the onboard solution at the moment and buy a separate graphics card later).

 

About the pbtech package: Is this in New Zealand Dollar or US-Dollar? If I convert it from NZD to USD, it costs ~335USD. I am not sure, if Amazon or another store is available in your country, but you get the same stuff for ~280 USD at Amazon.com. The package itself looks okay ( I mean: we RRU users could search for better alternatives, but the question will always be: can you buy it in New Zealand or can it be sent to New Zealand?)

[noghiri]

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=VGAEVG3967&name=EVGA-GeForce-GTX-960-SSC-Version--4GB-GDDR5-PCI-Ex

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=VGAAS67190&name=Asus-R9-380-DirectCU-II-Overclocked-990MHz-2GB-GDD

These are my recommendations.

 

Everything's more expensive in that corner of the Pacific.

[aidenpons]

@Arthuriel After chatting in - well, the chat - @mumboking said I really needed to replace my PSU because, in Nog's words, "that psu was born outdated." In a strange twist of fate I have a spare one around that says it's compatible with Intel i5. So yeah.

 

 

Can somebody explain to me the G-Sync for Nvidia and FreeSync for AMD? I understand it's a solution for nasty problems relating to your GPU trying to talk to your monitor and having delays - but will this really make a lot of difference on a "190P" (that's what it says!) monitor that's only 1280x1024? (And is, yes, also about 10 years old. Maybe younger if I'm lucky).

(I'm sorry if I caused a heart attack by having such a ludicrously bad monitor )

 

On those two graphics cards: I looked up some comparatives and the AMD one just pushes ahead, but they were using a GTX 960 that only had 2GB of video RAM. Will the extra 2GB make a large difference?

[Fluffy Cupcake]

Heeeey, it's the EVGA GeForce GTX 960 4GB again! Guess who got one of those last month (me, duh. :P)

 

[Arthuriel]

@aiden: Okay, the PSU thing sounds kinda solved by now, but with a sticker I meant this though: http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2008/04/28200043143l.jpg

Why I ask? Because the information and the amount of information is an indicator, if the PSU is okay or not.

 

About the monitor solution (because this is also important to know): In that case the onboard solution of your new hardware might be enough, which in return means, that you can buy a graphics card, when you actually have to (low framerate and/or a new monitor with a higher resolution). This way you can also save some money at the moment.

 

The only Sync I know of, is V-Sync, which limits the framerate of your graphics card or onboard solution. Example: If your monitor has a maximum refresh rate (how often the content on the display gets updated per second) of 60Hz, it means, that your computer will not produce more than 60 frames per second on average. This can help reducing some graphic errors, saves some energy (which in return also means, that the pc is more quiet) and prevents (your graphics card from making) high pitched noises. That can happen, if you are in a menu of a game without having V-Sync turned on (your graphic card can produce fps in the four digit area and you can hear that noise).

 

edit (out of curiosity): I searched "190p 1280*1024 tft" and the most fitting results were about the Phillips Brilliance 190p: http://www.ebay.ch/itm/LCD-Monitor-Philips-Brilliance-190P7ES-48-3cm-19-/201502609948?hash=item2eea7dd21c:g:FXwAAOSwJkJWlldL

Apparently the monitor can also look like this (although there seem to be several models, that were released around 2004/5): http://www.chip.de/artikel/Philips-Brilliance-190P_12832976.html

[mumboking]

16 hours ago, aidenpons said:

Can somebody explain to me the G-Sync for Nvidia and FreeSync for AMD?

 

On those two graphics cards: I looked up some comparatives and the AMD one just pushes ahead, but they were using a GTX 960 that only had 2GB of video RAM. Will the extra 2GB make a large difference?

They both basically do the same. This video is about Freesync.

For your purposes... Don't worry about this. You'd need a compatible monitor (Mostly expensive.)

 

I don't know if the GTX 960 has enough power to even use 4GB.

If you're thinking about 4GB... Try a GTX 970 or GTX 980 Ti.

(I'm only thinking about NVidia cards. :P)

 

@Arthuriel The PSU that's i5 compatible is an Enermax NAXN 500W (I believe he said it's an ENP500AST)

[Fluffy Cupcake]

2 hours ago, mumboking said:

(I'm only thinking about NVidia cards. :P)

NVida - Hit choice for gamers. =P

[aidenpons]

It has transpired that we need a new DVD drive, because its connection isn't SATA and thus not supported, and another OS because my old machine was 32-bit and giving it 16GB of RAM made it not happy at all.

 

We may or may not be able to get these tomorrow.

[mumboking]

2 hours ago, aidenpons said:

It has transpired that we need a new DVD drive, because its connection isn't SATA and thus not supported, and another OS because my old machine was 32-bit and giving it 16GB of RAM made it not happy at all.

 

We may or may not be able to get these tomorrow.

If your Windows product key is only used on that PC, you can install the 64-bit version and use the same key. It works for both.

[aidenpons]

10 hours ago, mumboking said:

If your Windows product key is only used on that PC, you can install the 64-bit version and use the same key. It works for both.

 

The only Windows 7 product key we have came with the Win7 installation CD, and we used that on a laptop.

 

Furthermore, we need a new CD drive anyway because our current ones can't connect to the motherboard.

 

 

 

So:

Stuff we're keeping from the original computer:

er...

we're moving the backup drives across to the new machine?

Oh yes, those things at the back where you can mount things - we found one on the bottom of the case and used it to fill one of those holes. (The other one we filled with cardboard ).

.... and that's it, I think

 

Stuff we're keeping from other computers around the place:

Case. This includes the big sheets of metal & the power button. No cables have been reused.

Floppy disk drive. I'm going to attempt to take that out anyway.

 

 

So, um, yeah.... next time, I'll just get a new computer

[Fluffy Cupcake]

4 hours ago, aidenpons said:

The only Windows 7 product key we have came with the Win7 installation CD, and we used that on a laptop.

Furthermore, we need a new CD drive anyway because our current ones can't connect to the motherboard.

 

Keep this in mind if you ever can't use your installation disc: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows7

[aidenpons]

I am now typing from my "upgraded" computer.

 

It was indeed originally intended to be an upgrade.

From the original computer, we have kept:

- two backup HDDs and some files

- peripherals (monitor, keyboard, etc)

- peripheral cables

 

From the other computer we have kept:

- case

- some screws

- floppy disk drive, because if we took it out it would make a hole in the front

 

What we have bought:

- PSU

- Motherboard

- RAM

- HDD that's now C:/ and conveniently 2 TB

- Operating System (Win8.1 that we immediately upgraded to 10)

- DVD drive

- Any interior cable you care to name (they come with the PSU and motherboard)

 

Soo... I leave it to you whether this is an "upgrade" or not. What I will say is that it is extremely silent and I have to concentrate to hear it as opposed to our router/switch (though our switch is fairly noisy). This is a stark change from a computer that had fans that took 5min to get up to full speed

 

What we do not have at the moment is a graphics card of any sort. This will be the case for some time.

I understand that to fully answer my upcoming question, three pages will be necessary.

But what is the difference between ASUS and NVIDIA? Is the answer "not much except for fine detail which you probably don't care about?"

[Arthuriel]

Good to know, that the computer is better than the old one and that it will hopefully last a long time : ).

 

That almost every part is new is something, that I noticed in beginning ^^ (see my first post on page 2).

 

The difference between ASUS and NVidia:

ASUS makes several different types of products like laptops, motherboards, graphic cards etc. and for that they (sometimes or often?) use components from other manufacturers (like from NVidia. Why? Well, NVidia makes the graphic chip(s) (also known as the GPU), that you can find on your graphics card).

[mumboking]

2 hours ago, aidenpons said:

But what is the difference between ASUS and NVIDIA? Is the answer "not much except for fine detail which you probably don't care about?"

NVidia and AMD make GPUs, ASUS uses GPUs from either company to make graphics cards with their own cooling system on it.

Many manufacturers do the same. For example, I have an MSI GTX 970. It's an NVidia based card, but made by MSI.

[aidenpons]

9 hours ago, mumboking said:

NVidia and AMD make GPUs, ASUS uses GPUs from either company to make graphics cards with their own cooling system on it.

Many manufacturers do the same. For example, I have an MSI GTX 970. It's an NVidia based card, but made by MSI.

 

What's the difference between a GPU and a graphics card? Anything?

[Arthuriel]

GPU stands for graphics processing unit and is the main chip on your graphics card. Sometimes GPU is also used to describe the graphics card as a whole (like in this thread here) since most graphics card only have one GPU. It's like the CPU on your mainboard.

[ChileToast]

On 12/15/2015 at 5:14 AM, Xiron said:

I've heard the term overclocking so much, and while I haven't looked into it I've heard about it enough to get an idea what it is. To answer the question, I haven't even considered it yet.

Overclocking is very overrated. I've OCed my own GPU and CPU, as well as a few on my friends' PCs, and at best, you'll get an extra 5 fps out of demanding games before artifacts start appearing. It's also possible to damage your expensive components by overclocking, so if you ever decide to do it, check and double check that you're doing it right, that's my advice, based on personal experience.