Soil

[Lair]

The hunt for soil. I maye have made a topic before but now I'm doing new things so might as well ask again.

I've been looking for Soil. THat old Rock type labled as Rock01. All of its code is in the cfg, perfectly, but I can't find its map value. People thought it might be 05, and from the looks of the maps it probably was, but now that just varies between Ground and LooseRock (When I talk about LooseRock I mean Dirt, MediumRock is Loose Rock to all of you). Going higher just produces crazy things. I've "added" it back, but it was just bumping up things and transforming Ore Seams into solid Rock. And don't say it never worked, I see it in beta shots. So now I'm asking everyone for help because I will NOT give up until I know 100% that it is impossible, thanks.

00		Lego_SurfaceType_Tunnel					Ground,SurfaceSFX_Tunnel

01		Lego_SurfaceType_Immovable				Solid_Rock,SurfaceSFX_Immovable

02		Lego_SurfaceType_Hard					Hard_Rock,SurfaceSFX_Hard

03		Lego_SurfaceType_Medium					Loose_Rock,SurfaceSFX_Medium

04		Lego_SurfaceType_Loose					Dirt,SurfaceSFX_Loose

05		Lego_SurfaceType_Soil					Soil,SurfaceSFX_Soil

06		Lego_SurfaceType_Lava					Lava,SurfaceSFX_Lava

07		Lego_SurfaceType_Water					Water,SurfaceSFX_Water

08		Lego_SurfaceType_OreSeam				Ore_Seam,SurfaceSFX_OreSeam

09		Lego_SurfaceType_Lake					Water,SurfaceSFX_Lake

0A		Lego_SurfaceType_CrystalSeam			Energy_Crystal_Seam,SurfaceSFX_CrystalSeam

0B		Lego_SurfaceType_RechargeSeam			Recharge_Seam,SurfaceSFX_RechargeSeam

0C		Lego_SurfaceType_Rubble					Rubble,SurfaceSFX_Rubble

0D		Lego_SurfaceType_Reinforcement			Reinforced_Wall,SurfaceSFX_Reinforcement

0E		Lego_SurfaceType_Path					Power_Path,SurfaceSFX_Path

0F		Lego_SurfaceType_SlugHole				Slimy_Slug_Hole,SurfaceSFX_SlugHole

10		Lego_SurfaceType_Undiscovered			Undiscovered_Cavern,SurfaceSFX_Undiscovered

11		Lego_SurfaceType_Cavern					Cavern_Floor,SurfaceSFX_Cavern

So all of these "work" except 05 which just adds more ST_Loose. Why?

Edit: I've tried every Surf-Dugg combo, and it SHOULD BE 05, but that just makes dirt...

[McJobless]

Thank you for this. Now, let's see if we can add these to the .cfg and make some modifications to 05 that way...

[Lair]

Thank you for this. Now, let's see if we can add these to the .cfg and make some modifications to 05 that way...

Say what? This IS in the CFG. These are wall types and their hex code, but 05 doesn't work. And rearranging them doesn't work... is it hard-coded?

Wait...did you really just say "thank you for this"? <_<

[Cyrem]

05 is used for all flat area in the maps. Soil simply refers to the ground, like it does in real life. Should you somehow change soil into a wall you will stuff up all the game's maps.

[Lair]

05 is used for all flat area in the maps. Soil simply refers to the ground, like it does in real life. Should you somehow change soil into a wall you will stuff up all the game's maps.

Incorrect, Cyrem. 05 is used for LooseWall, and soil refers to a WALL type, which is why it has drilling valued. Do they drill ground?

Flat areas in the map are 01 in the DUGG file. There is no flat area code in the Surf map, and 00 WILL make try to make normal ground but it will be treated like a wall (sloping upward to the roof) without a dugg map code of 01 over it.

00		Lego_SurfaceType_Tunnel					Ground,SurfaceSFX_Tunnel

05		Lego_SurfaceType_Soil					Soil,SurfaceSFX_Soil

_{pay attention cyrem...}

So once more I say that it SHOULD be 05, but that is just Dirt for some reason.

[Cyrem]

No, Lair, 05 is used in the surf map where all flat ground is (go have a look in the map files if you don't believe me). I know flat area also depends on the Dugg map, but I'm not talking about the dugg file. Using 00 causes undesirable results, it is not used in ANY surf maps. I don't care what the CFG says, it's full of broken on old variables that no longer have any effect. It is not to be trusted.

There are a lot of lose ends in this game, but it doesn't mean they can be connected. If they ever had an extra wall type, they probably removed it because they didn't need two easy-to-drill rock types.

By the looks of the HEX you have next to those lines, it looks like they may have planned to use a single map file. However later they separated slug holes/paths etc... into different files. Which would have been a better idea since they needed to use multiple values for each map block.

[Lair]

1. No, Lair, 05 is used in the surf map where all flat ground is

2. (go have a look in the map files if you don't believe me).

3. I know flat area also depends on the Dugg map, but I'm not talking about the dugg file.

4. Using 00 causes undesirable results, it is not used in ANY surf maps.

5. There are a lot of lose ends in this game, but it doesn't mean they can be connected. If they ever had an extra wall type, they probably removed it because they didn't need two easy-to-drill rock types.

1. No, Cyrem, 05 is used as Dirt in the Surf map. You completally ignored where I said that a DUGG code of 01 causes ground. There is no surface map code that will ever cause flat ground. 05 is Dirt, like it or not. Which reminds me you need to change this in the map editor because whenever I load original levels I get ground where dirt should be.

2. I'm looking in the map files I created. And why shouldn't I belive you? They could put Solid Rock there and then have a dugg code of 01 where it is and it would come out as ground. Yes, in the original maps it is used as ground, but it's really Dirt. That's the Dugg map talking.

3. And you just said that 05 was Dirt despite the dugg map. What.

4. Yeah, it causes a WALL of Ground unless there is a Dugg code of 01 which turns it into ground. Infact it cancells out all surf codes except Water, Flood Water, Lava, and the sparkles on Recharge seams.

5. I think this happened. What's odd is that the Floating water wasn't removed but this was even though all the code for it is there.

[RockmoddeR]

If it's in any way related to dugg can we make the ground drillable? :af:

[Lair]

If it's in any way related to dugg can we make the ground drillable?

If you open the Exe and add a GroundDrillTime, sure.

Whoops.

[RockmoddeR]

Stop continually making me attracted to the idea of doing just that and getting banned. We've already discussed this, and when I'm sick and tired of RRU I'll do it, but that won't be for a while.

[Lair]

Really? You'll mod the exe?

Well, good luck changing ANYTHING without your game exploding, much less something sensable.

But that's entirley off-topic and I don't want it discussed. What I want to know is how to get Soil into LRR. All of its code is there, so why won't it work? Why does 05 just give LooseWal?

[McJobless]

Why don't you just modify Lava? I don't see what the problem is with using another type.

[Lair]

Why don't you just modify Lava? I don't see what the problem is with using another type.

The failure here is...astounding. Really.

For starters, Lava is Lava and not a wall. Nor does it have a drill type. Or a promesh.

I want NO MORE EXE TALK

REAL HELP PLEASE

[RockmoddeR]

Try replacing its textures and properties with those of another wall, to see if anything is missing materialwise. It may also have to do with not having a "promesh" in world wall meshes, but I can't be sure, I never really poked around in there.

[Sonic322]

What does promesh mean?

So all of these "work" except 05 which just adds more ST_Loose. Why?

Edit: I've tried every Surf-Dugg combo, and it SHOULD BE 05, but that just makes dirt...

So wait, does it add loose rock or dirt?

00		Lego_SurfaceType_Tunnel					Ground,SurfaceSFX_Tunnel

01		Lego_SurfaceType_Immovable				Solid_Rock,SurfaceSFX_Immovable

02		Lego_SurfaceType_Hard					Hard_Rock,SurfaceSFX_Hard

03		Lego_SurfaceType_Medium					Loose_Rock,SurfaceSFX_Medium

04		Lego_SurfaceType_Loose					Dirt,SurfaceSFX_Loose

05		Lego_SurfaceType_Soil					Soil,SurfaceSFX_Soil

06		Lego_SurfaceType_Lava					Lava,SurfaceSFX_Lava

07		Lego_SurfaceType_Water					Water,SurfaceSFX_Water

08		Lego_SurfaceType_OreSeam				Ore_Seam,SurfaceSFX_OreSeam

09		Lego_SurfaceType_Lake					Water,SurfaceSFX_Lake

0A		Lego_SurfaceType_CrystalSeam			Energy_Crystal_Seam,SurfaceSFX_CrystalSeam

0B		Lego_SurfaceType_RechargeSeam			Recharge_Seam,SurfaceSFX_RechargeSeam

0C		Lego_SurfaceType_Rubble					Rubble,SurfaceSFX_Rubble

0D		Lego_SurfaceType_Reinforcement			Reinforced_Wall,SurfaceSFX_Reinforcement

0E		Lego_SurfaceType_Path					Power_Path,SurfaceSFX_Path

0F		Lego_SurfaceType_SlugHole				Slimy_Slug_Hole,SurfaceSFX_SlugHole

10		Lego_SurfaceType_Undiscovered			Undiscovered_Cavern,SurfaceSFX_Undiscovered

11		Lego_SurfaceType_Cavern					Cavern_Floor,SurfaceSFX_Cavern

Have you checked all of these to make sure they all work the way they should?

And what does Lego_SurfaceType_Tunnel, Lego_SurfaceType_Undiscovered, and Lego_SurfaceType_Cavern do when you try them in game?

[Cirevam]

Try replacing its textures and properties with those of another wall, to see if anything is missing materialwise. It may also have to do with not having a "promesh" in world wall meshes, but I can't be sure, I never really poked around in there.

1) Replacing files won't help because Soil is never placed. 05 just places Dirt. When Lair swapped Hard Rock with Soil in the EXE, he said it worked.

2) Soil has a promesh for every biome. I just checked.

What does promesh mean?

So wait, does it add loose rock or dirt?

1) Promeshes are the 3D models that are used for walls when in 1st or 2nd person view.

2) It adds SurfaceType_Loose, which is Dirt. SurfaceType_Medium is Loose Rock.

[Lair]

Try replacing its textures and properties with those of another wall, to see if anything is missing materialwise. It may also have to do with not having a "promesh" in world wall meshes, but I can't be sure, I never really poked around in there.

1) Replacing files won't help because Soil is never placed. 05 just places Dirt. When Lair swapped Hard Rock with Soil in the EXE, he said it worked.

2) Soil has a promesh for every biome. I just checked.

1. Which means the code is still there but is somehow cut off. (Also in my mod I "bumped" everything up and knocked off ore seams)

2. Recharge seams don't actually have promeshes, but they work, so that's not the issue.

1. Have you checked all of these to make sure they all work the way they should?

2. And what does Lego_SurfaceType_Tunnel, Lego_SurfaceType_Undiscovered, and Lego_SurfaceType_Cavern do when you try them in game?

1. There's no "way they should" because many of them aren't meant to be in the surf map. Let me explain:

2. Immovable, Hard, Medium, Loose, Soil (which they exe changed to be another loose it seems) Ore, Crystal, and Recharge all place the correct walls. Everything else places an undrillable yet clickable wall of ground with said name for it, except water (the old water not the Lake type which is actually used) which does wierd things. Of course this is in a dugg spot of 00. With a Dugg of 01 everything becomes Ground except Lava, Lake, and water.

[Sonic322]

Soil (which they exe changed to be another loose it seems)

To bad you can't check how the exe uses the surf map.

[Devestater]

Lair, what is Flood Water in LRR, sice you talked about it in this topic?

[Lair]

But that's entirley off-topic and I don't want it discussed. What I want to know is how to get Soil into LRR.

Sorry, not discussing it here. Go to the "Underwater is a wall type" or something in the Screenshots room.

[Amauros]

No, Lair, 05 is used in the surf map where all flat ground is (go have a look in the map files if you don't believe me).

That can't be right. I just changed all instances of 03 and 04 to 05 in the first level's surf map. This changed everything that was loose rock or dirt... to dirt. I also changed all instances to 04 and still got dirt (03 obviously got loose rock).

To me, this means that the game engine is replacing all instances of 05 with 04 when loading a surf map.

@Cyrem, you mentioned something about the dugg map and if you think it has to do with why 05 showed up as a dirt wall instead of ground... please show how.

[Cyrem]

No, Lair, 05 is used in the surf map where all flat ground is (go have a look in the map files if you don't believe me).

That can't be right. I just changed all instances of 03 and 04 to 05 in the first level's surf map. This changed everything that was loose rock or dirt... to dirt. I also changed all instances to 04 and still got dirt (03 obviously got loose rock).

To me, this means that the game engine is replacing all instances of 05 with 04 when loading a surf map.

@Cyrem, you mentioned something about the dugg map and if you think it has to do with why 05 showed up as a dirt wall instead of ground... please show how.

05 in combination with the Dugg file. Open any original map in PSPad, all the 05's you see are where flat ground is in accordance with the Dugg map. Dugg defines if it is a wall or not, Surf defines the wall/ground type.

[Amauros]

Hmmm.... well I've played with the dugg file a bit, but I'm going to play around some more tomorrow. However, I think I see what you mean now.

[Lair]

What it is in the surf map doesn't matter at all (excpt for water and lava), though they decided to make it 05 for conventional purpose or something. A dugg code of 01 is ground (or water and lava)

[Amauros]

Actually not quite. In the dugg map: 00 is wall (I assume), 01 is discovered cavern, 02 is undiscovered cavern. I tested 01 and 02 yesterday on the first level by changing all instances of 01/02 to one or the other. I couldn't load the level with 02 because everything was hidden, 01 revealed the base that you originally had to mine to... and the story event triggered at the start of the level. I haven't tested what would happen if I changed everything to 00, but I'd assume it would turn the ground floor to dirt walls. As for what would happen to lava/water when you change 01/02 to 00.... well that's one of those things I wanted to experiment on later today. :P